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Talk:Zeus (mythology)
Jerka$$ Gods According to TV Tropes, and I personally agree with this belief, the Olympians were, for the most part, spoiled brats with fancy powers at best and Complete Monsters at worst, with Zeus, Hera, Poseidon, Ares, Enyo, and Athena being among the absolute worst of them. Exceptions to this are Hades (who rarely bothered mortals and was actually a rather fair god), Hemes (who reserved his mischief for fellow gods and only punished mortals when they deserved it beyond even modern doubt), Demeter (whose only trangression was unintentional: she was just trying to find her daughter), Hephaestus (who was actually rather decent, which is surprising, given all the terrble things his fellow gods did to him) and Hestia (who never got involved in...well, anything). Among the heinous acts the Olympians committed were: *forcing mortals to settle their own petty arguments for them, showing a complete lack of responsibility, perhaps even laziness. *starting bloody wars amongst the people who dutifully worshiped them for petty reasons or for sick amusement. *were generally rapacious, and made no attempts to protect any children that might be born as a result. *sent monsters after mortals and made 'heroes' fight them simply for entertainment. *would cast horrible, drastic curses on people whom they believed offended them, even if the hapless mortal did nothing to deserve it. *would often take their anger out on mortals whenever there was an argument between them. *impersonating certain mortals in order to frame said mortal for a crime that he/she would obviously never commit, then leave the mortal to face unjust punishment. Now, ancient sources may simply believe these actions to be justified, but if we look back now, I think I'm right in saying that the Olympians were some of the worst kinds of villains, happily skipping over the MEH for petty reasons or no reason at all. They are Complete Monsters!Pyromania101 (talk) 07:10, October 26, 2012 (UTC) not quite Complete Monsters (due to the fact they ran on a "different set of laws from mortals", however read this story and try and tell me Olympians (by today's standards) shouldn't be featured.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erysichthon_of_Thessaly Unseelie-Queen (talk) 20:57, October 26, 2012 (UTC) It's hard to say isn't it? He was basically an Id with a lightning-bolt attached every vice there is he had. But most of those sort of things were added on/embellished to relate more to the common man, newflash ancient greek men did some pretty sick stuff as standard and times change. Still considering the shear level of egotism he displayed, whether or not it was derserved, antagoized alot of other gods and mortals alike making him the source of alot of discord if not an out and out "villian" of the stories. Still we allow the badass hero types as villains for the purpose of this wiki and on that merit alone I think your right Zeus can qualify, because no one pushes the term "Heroic Jerk" to it's limits harder than the big Z here.Mesektet (talk) 13:41, October 27, 2012 (UTC) I wouldnt consider Zeus a Complete monster, but he wasnt a fair man. however, there is certain figures that should definitely go under this category from Greek Mythology. Cronos is one of those. Crayzee Dawg 101 (talk) 17:34, October 28, 2012 (UTC) Yeah, Cronos ate his kids, but considering how wretched some of them were, most of them deserved it. Also, he never bothered mortals, unlike his successors.Pyromania101 (talk) 18:18, October 28, 2012 (UTC) Cause and affect, Cronus ate babies, he didn't give any of them a chance to be Jerks, in fact it might very well have lead to the various personality flaws of his offspring. And even ignoring his children he still left his own siblings to rot in Tartarus after promising Gaea he would free them using the oppertunity she gave him to just banish his father and assuem the throne; and why? he thought they were too ugly to be seen with him and his more handsome/beautiful siblings. Not all the titans were jerks, some were down-right noble but Cronus certainly is one of, if not the evilist of the lot.Mesektet (talk) 03:50, October 29, 2012 (UTC) A number of these brothers and sisters were Cyclopes, who would terrorize mortals whenever they encountered them. Maybe being eaten did shape their personalities to a degree, but it was a trade off: as long as the Titans were in power, mortals were never bothered with all the petty problems that Zeus and his buddies foisted on us after Cronos was defeated. There were more decent beings among the Titans than the Olympians, and while I admit that cannibalism on Cronos' part was vile, Zeus would be a hypocrite if he pointed this out: if we go by the story in which Athena had a mother, then said mother, Metis, was eaten by Zeus in the hopes that the child(ren) she bore would not be a threat to him. I have no doubt that Zeus would not have hesitated to cannibalize his own children if someone told him that one or more of them might become a threat to his rule, as he's just as paranoid as his predecessors.Pyromania101 (talk) 05:46, October 29, 2012 (UTC) By all account once Zeus had freed the Elder Cyclops and Hundred Handed Giants they kept to themselves and retired from the world and never bothered anyone. Their only real threat point was their size and in that area they were just as big as the titans, that point aside all the stories are pretty clear, Cronus found them ugly, that was the extent of their crime to him, same as Uranus except Uranus kept them in Tartarus out of an obsessive devotion to Gaea, Cronus was just acting out of vanity. Also to end with the necessary boiler plate, in the immortal words of Peter Griffin "EATS BABIES".Mesektet (talk) 08:39, October 29, 2012 (UTC) to be honest this is similar to the Christian debate on "God As The Devil" - some will sympathize with the Titans just as some sympathize with Lucifer and see God as a big tyrannical bully... ultimately it comes down to personal belief - that is why theological beings should not be labelled Complete Monsters.. they are all about personal belief - one man's God is another man's Devil Unseelie-Queen (talk) 18:53, October 30, 2012 (UTC) Point blank, Cronus did not care about a single soul except for himself, and if he thought that they didnt look good, he treated them beyond the extent of horror. As for Satan, he is almost never seen as a good spirit. I mean, some do support him, but they are most likely incredibly misguided. There doesnt seem to be anything good about Satan, and is the one that supports all the evil in this world.Crayzee Dawg 101 (talk) 20:14, October 30, 2012 (UTC) Wow, my hat's off to you, Pyro. Besides myself, you're literally the only person I've ever seen to not sugar coat and say that they possibly count as Complete Monsters. I could go into a huge rant about why I believe this, but I'll limit for right now. I've noticed that the female deities tend to get it easier from modern day people, but Imo this isn't really a well deserved treatment. Yeah, Ancient Greece and their mythology treated women like shit, but it's important to remember that the gods are pretty much bunch of Sues and Stus, and obviously the female deities are gonna be treated better than the lowly, insignificant humans. So, people can't really use misogynistic abuse as a defense for them. Now for specific goddesses: *'Hera:' The most obvious example. From what I remember, for no other reason than the fact that his mother was raped by Zeus, she took control over Heracles' mind and forced him to mercilessly slaughter his wife and children (woman-on-woman evil here!). And like any true Jerk Sue, she's not held accountable for her actions, and indeed, the story victim blames Heracles for Hera's evil. Because humans suck and gods can do whatever they want so stfu. And let's also not forget that she's quite famous for, instead of punishing Zeus (who is not a high-and-mighty Man, he's also a high-and-mighty god), she torments the women he effs, as well as her children, and the old book on mythology I had said that this is true even if the woman had been unwilling (which is a just a sugar coat term for rape). So we have one of the Feminine Divinities punishing women for having the audacity to be raped. Because humans suck and gods rule. And let's also not forget that Zeus doesn't do anything to protect his eff toys, even though he's the male king of the gods and Hera's husband. Yeah... *'Aphrodite:' I do not care at all if she's promiscuous or not. I hate slut-shaming. Nope, this is another issue. We have what is arguably one of, if not the only account of female-on-female rape in myth and religion. Remember that Huntress of Artemis? You know the one that Aphrodite mind controlled into falling lust with a bear, and made the bear fall in lust with her (so we have animal cruelty too!). Idk what anyone says, even if Aprhodite didn't physically touch her, it's still one of the most insidious cases of rape I've ever seen. And all this because she was jealous of Artemis, so instead of going against Artemis, she rapes a defenseless mortal woman. Because humans suck and gods rule. And speaking of Artemis... *'Artemis:' Everyone knows about her merciless cruelty towards the hunter who accidentally saw her naked. But like the other examples on this list, I'll keep it to female-on-female abuse. You know the aforementioned Huntress, the one Aphrodite violated? Artemis shows off just how little the gods care for humans when she victim blames (Anyone noticing a trend here?) the innocent Huntress instead of putting the blame where it belongs, and abandons her loyal worshipper. Because humans suck and gods rule. *'Athena:' Artemis is sometimes considered to be one of the nicer gods, which really says a whole lot about this pantheon. Athena however is almost always portrayed as one of the better gods. I think this is being generous. Following the trend of blaming rape victims, and showing off just how little these deities care for mortals, we have Athena's treatment of Medusa. Medusa was Athena's priestess. Medusa was raped by Poseidon in Athena's temple. So does this supposedly benevolent goddess defend and avenge her loyal priestess? Nope! Once again we get a case of femal-on-female victim blaming. Athena curses Medusa with hideous ugliness (and keep in mind that being ugly was like one of the worst things in Greek mythology *cough*Hephaestus*cough*), and yet not only does Athena curse her with being ugly, she curses her with snake hair and petrification gaze, effectively making it so that she can never again rejoin human society, and will forever be alone and miserable, never getting justic for what was done to her. Oh and if that wasn't enough, Athena drags her sisters into this too! Her two sisters were made into even more physically repulsive Gorgons. And the sisters were cursed with immortality, essentially making it so that they will be stuck in a life of misery forever (essentially eternal damnation), not that the sisters had a good shot at getting a happy life with these sociopathic monsters calling the shots. And in the myths (and even in modern fantasy, looking at you Percy Jackson books), these women are not treated as violated abuse victims (which they are), they're treated as monsters to be conquered by the male hero. And that's not the end of it. Remember Arachne? Arachne was one of the few people brave enough to stand up to the gods and accurately portray their evil in her art. And of course Athena cursed with eternal damnation as well by turning her into a spider. And Athena curses every single on of Arachne's guiltless children as well (and it's implied in both the myths and Percy Jackson that spiders are sentient creatures), all because of the gods titanic egos. Because mortals suck and gods rule. So, like you said Pyro, they're a bunch lazy, narcissistic children at best, and a bunch of rabid dogs at worst. Oh and btw, Cronus's rule was actually a Golden Age for mankind. In stark contrast, the successor gods punished mankind by creating woman (more misogyny!) and basically manipulating her into unleashing the ills of the world onto mankind. However I will say that I don't hate all mythological pantheons nearly as much as I do the Greek ones, and I'm quite fond of some. The Norse mythology was better to women and humans in general. Frigg was basically almost equal to Odin and could outwit him. And though I don't count them as mythological figures, but rather religious figures, the Hindu gods are actually pretty cool from everything I've read. Squall L. (talk) 12:08, February 25, 2013 (UTC)Squall L.